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current chapter word count: 2490 [and a lot of them different words than the last time!]
number of scenes in chapter: 8 [Kamui multiplied *g*]
of which... are written: 7
of which... need tinkering: 2
of which... don't exist yet: 1
amount of chapter considered done: 80%
detail that was most useful for setting up the Mori: geography [and Clamp's "Shin Shun Kaden"]
character that still needs to say something: Kakyo
sentence accidentally written for chapter 12: "Garden? That's not a garden, that's green stuff growing around the house!"
number of scenes in chapter: 8 [Kamui multiplied *g*]
of which... are written: 7
of which... need tinkering: 2
of which... don't exist yet: 1
amount of chapter considered done: 80%
detail that was most useful for setting up the Mori: geography [and Clamp's "Shin Shun Kaden"]
character that still needs to say something: Kakyo
sentence accidentally written for chapter 12: "Garden? That's not a garden, that's green stuff growing around the house!"
no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 20:34 (UTC)From:And the link isn't as directly as you might think.
Though given the timeframe, you might want to think about the original concept of Mori and Sakurazukamori, not the twisted contemporary one.
I saw your timeline earlier. All I can say is: my last fandom was pretty much torn apart by timeline issue arguments, which is why I strongly dislike the idea of stated timelines. They usually cause more trouble than they help. :)
At a certain point in writing you have to make adaptations to fit logic, and then people start pointing at timelines (often multiple ones) and say "but that's then" and "you have to..." and that is when it gets sour when there is no canon included timeline (and few fandoms have those (luckily in my eyes)). :(
Get me right: I applaud & admire the effort. I'm just wary of possible consequences due to earlier experiences.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 20:57 (UTC)From:I think that if a fandom have an official and clear timeline it can be of some help.
In CLAMP case however it's hard to say when happened what. Even all my calculations doesn't help much.
X gave Kyougo 45 when he died in 1999... so I assumed his birthday was in 1954. However if he was born... let's say in December he he would still have died at 45 but his birthday would be in 1955.
So hum... the timeline I wrote is mostly a vague outline of when happened what not... the Holy Bible of CLAMPverse.
You know I'm a canon lover, despite my obsession for Au, so I would much prefer if there was an official and LOGIC timeline (Card Captor Sakura's driving me insane... at the beginning Touya's given as a 2nd year high school student... but it seems that after 3 years he was still in high school... which would be possible only if he lost a class or if he was a 1st year...).
Yes, sometimes for fanfictions it would be easier if we could chose the when and where... but, if the original author planned all accurately, I prefer to follow his/her instructions or do an AU.
It's just a matter of tastes, I guess.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 21:12 (UTC)From:I agree with an official and clear timeline being of help if given by the original author(s). However, any fan-composed timeline (FCT) necessarily includes subjective perspective (even if backed up by as much canonical facts as possible).
Also, a FCT tends to take on a life of its own. While it originally was composed by one author as a tool to get his/her own stories straight, it was taken later out of context and applied to other peoples' works in demand of them using it. Fans who either didn't recognize the FCT as being an FCT (that is one person's choice for a specific problem) or didn't care about it became almost fascist when people decided - often validly because canon didn't state everything clearly(!) - to deviate from the "approved" FCT. I think that killed a lot of good, interesting stories in the offing by either making authors worry or not even having the idea for them, because they are sticking by the FCT. It was a really sad experience, which is why I now tend to warn people about posting their fact collections - esp. timelines.
I'm a factoid myself, but I tend to get ruled by the necessities of my plot, stating clearly when I deviate from possible canon or why I made a certain assumption etc. if it's not obvious. So I see the temptation of posting fact lists and esp. timelines, but there are downsides to it that just aren't that obvious.
I agree with most of your timeline, but - for example - if taken at face-value (without seeing it as an FCT, that is), then 36° wouldn't have worked, because Nokoru's age would be close to Subaru's (your timeline and the manga, but not the movie for example) and not Seishiro's. Think how you feel when you've written a story within justified assumptions in a relative timeline and you get five years later an email basically accusing you of forgetting about canon(sic!) because of somebody else's FCT (and the other party becoming pissed when you name it an FCT).
I know this is merely my own paranoia here - and probably not likely going to happen with your FCT & fact collections - but I'm still wary and I wanted to tell you that such sad things actually did happen before. :)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 21:13 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 21:53 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-29 21:52 (UTC)From:Oh, okay, I was thinking it was in the Interregnum...
FCT (if backed up by canon) are good only for giving a general outline of how the story went (unless canon is really, really specific and give you the exact date for each story... but I still have to find such manga...).
CLAMP are very, very vague about their timeline so I don't think fans can do an exact timeline.
I state in the beginning of mine that I doubted it was exact. If someone were to bug you due to it please warn me. I would hate to see my work used in this way.
I began stating everything in notes when I started writing for Yami no Matsuei. At the time the manga wasn't well known and people were obsessed with the anime and their assumptions over it (among other things they ABSOLUTELY wanted Tatsumi to be born earlier tahn Tsuzuki)...
And of course the anime didn't match exactly with the manga and since I was instead using the manga I had to point out all the differences between the two in order to avoid hearing 'But it hadn't happened like that!'.
Now I guess I've kept the habit even if the manga had been finally printed everywhere...
Don't worry too much about your Nokoru and merely state you're using the anime as canon resource.
The anime can still be a worthy canon.
According to my FCT I've troubles too because in a fic I've had Nokoru's born in 1972... but I was thinking Akira's marriage took place before 1999...
And after all, until I don't find the canon source of that 1980, it's just an indicative date.
A good one, maybe even the right one but I won't call it canon until I can prove it. I'm stubborn like that (which is the same reason for which I'm not calling Kurogane/Fay a couple or Watanuki/Himawari or Watanuki/Doumeki).
What I think trouly matter in a fic is that you do things according to a good and logic reason and following anime canon can be a good and valid reason (even though you know I think Nokoru should be younger than Seishiro in the manga... ^_- oh well, it's not as Seishiro looks old... and anyway people at 34 aren't old! THEY AREN'T OLD AT ALL!).
Anyway just warn me if someone would try to bug you due to the FCT. I've put warnings about it not being an official and exact one but there are people who need everything spelled out in giant size characters...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 04:22 (UTC)From:*g* well, 34 is old compared to the average "under twenty" of Kamui-chan & co. ;) Anyway, I know I deviated from likelyhood by setting Nokoru's YoB in 1965 (and I stated as much a couple of times - including the reason why my perception of him is so twisted). :)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 10:53 (UTC)From:People generally's picky about my lack of perfect English...
Well, yes, Sei-chan's technically the oldest in X... after Fuma's dad, Hinoto and the assorted grandads and grandmothers... (and maybe Saya and Toru if I got their age right) but since we're getting close in age I'm growing against the idea of calling him old... ^_-
Yes, I know and I remember your explanation, don't worry about it.
I've a couple of weird perceptions myself...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 11:09 (UTC)From:*g* I recently wrote a couple of crack scenes in which Kamui calls him "old man", that's where it stems from. About age perception: careful I was born in 1972. ;)
Nice that you mention Hinoto. Given the way Clamp indicates ages in their characters faces, you can practically choose their age at will. ;)
There's just one detail with Imonoyama that has me cringe with putting him at 18 in X. He is headmaster of Clamp Campus (stated) and given his proclaimed intellect the academic merits certainly aren't the issue; however, a headmaster requires certain social skills that need experience to be gained and I very much doubt that the educational boards would consider an 18 year old to have them, no matter how smart he is or how brilliant his grades are. With 18, he might have been a scientist - or a researcher - maybe teaching single lessons, but he wouldn't have a class on his own and certainly he wouldn't be head master.
Of course that's the kind of real life facts that Clamp tends to ride hotshot over, but I just love to put things into perspective there - hence another reason for Nokoru to get a swift aging therapy in my writing. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 12:16 (UTC)From:Don't worry, I know ^_^
*g* I recently wrote a couple of crack scenes in which Kamui calls him "old man", that's where it stems from.
LOL Oh well, he's old compared to Kamui and Kamui isn't known for his politenes...
About age perception: careful I was born in 1972. ;)
You're older than me? All of sudden I feel relief. I always end up talking with fans younger than me and it makes me feel so old... like I was a net granny or something...
It doesn't help that, in my coutry, many thinks manga should be an amusement for young children... BTW I was born in 1975...
Nice that you mention Hinoto. Given the way Clamp indicates ages in their characters faces, you can practically choose their age at will. ;)
According to Sorata she looks like a child but she's much older and since she contacted Tojyo before Kazuki's death and the Nataku's project lasted 30 years she's surely over 30...
According to TRC (yes, I know it's not stricktly X canon but CLAMP tend to use their ideas in other manga...) who has high magic power can live longer than normal and yet still look young so I do wonder how old she is and how old Kanoe is... because she looks older but not old... maybe her smaller magic power work to keep her young as well?
If I've to be honest I don't like the idea of Nokoru being born in 1980 either. As I said you to me it would be better if he were around Subaru's age.
But in CLAMPverse... well CLAMP Gakuen Tantei Dan (and 20 Menso with Duklyon) was born as those kind of absurd stories in which kids can do everything. Akira handled domestic duties cooking for his moms better than any chef (Nokoru's impressed he could reproduce in a very short time a type of chocolate that to others took lot of research) and keep an university course (cooking lessons all right but still for an 8 year-old to be called sensei...). Suo is described as the amazing 'best in any fighting art' kid.
Nokoru at 12 is keeping Research Presentations at the University Physics Department with old men clapping at him as if he made the discovery of the century, can buy an house, rent a room without an adult signing the contract for him, handles the Elementary Division Student Council with Suo and Akira (which organizes, among other things a travel around the world... not the kind of thing you would expect kids to handle... and what impress me even more was that Utako was in charge of the Preschool Division Student Council... so we don't know what exactly she organized but I've the feeling it's not something a preschool kid would be capable to handle). Plus he's the owner of the school so I don't know if others would dare to complain...
So I think that, if X were to be CLAMP Gakuen Tantei Dan I wouldn't have troubles seeing him in that position.
With X being X I would have preferred a bit more realism... which is why I was very disappointed when I discovered from which series he came from. The overly brillant kids that can do everything mood of CGTD doesn't really match with X in my humble opinion...
Even if X is obviously a fantasy story it looked more... realistic than tantei dan...
But maybe that's just me.
So I would have greatly preferred if Nokoru were the age you made him in X... but I fear CLAMP were in the mood of 'let's show how great Nokoru is having him as headmaster at such a young age...' -_-
Why, CLAMP, why?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 12:28 (UTC)From:Well, if Clamp Campus were an official school, it needed the approval of the Japanese board of education - or else its grades wouldn't be recognized elsewhere.
Said board would clearly object against a headmaster lacking the age needed for social experience and wisdom - as well as authority regarding pupils. Brilliance and fangirls don't make up for that. So Nokoru might have run the school since 18 (though age of maturity is 20 in Japan, btw.), but he certainly wouldn't have been the official headmaster...
Of course, as we both whined in unison, Clamp doesn't bother with this kind of facts. (However, we just might! and to hell with established canon in that regard. Btw. I like Nokoru, he is an interesting, complex character if stripped off the extremes and sugarcoating. I truly enjoyed teaming him up with teeny!Seishiro. :) )
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 13:28 (UTC)From:I've always found kind of fun how to Say I Kamui used 'ore', the tough boy way to say I, while Seishiro uses 'Boku', the 'mama's good boy' to say I...
I know. But as I mentioned before CLAMP let him sign a buying house contract at 12... no matter how rich Nokoru is... he should have been 20 or have an adult to sign for him to do so.
So either CLAMP assumed Imonoyama, due to being so rich, have a special status in Japan so that they don't need legal age or, more likely, they didn't care in the slightest... which as I said is fine and fun in CGTD but not so cool in X...
Oh, I do like Nokoru, Suo and Akira. It's just I don't see their universe fitting well in 'X'... it's... as if all of sudden during the last battle Sakura showed up and tried to fight Fuma with Clow cards... or Mokona declared to be Kamui's father... but well, maybe it's just me.
CLAMP canon sometimes needs to be kicked away because... it makes no sense at all (not mentioning sometimes CLAMP makes quite huge mistakes...)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 13:45 (UTC)From:I'm not sure how the rules are today, but there is something like a "family stamp" being legally binding in Japan. That stamp might occasionally be given to a junior member of the family to be used, since it doesn't include age varification. However, I do believe that for it to be legally binding, there would have to be some legal paper trail or so.
Which is why I don't use (much) of the CGTD universe at all (aside place settings sometimes) and stay within X (and reality actually). Stated source. Clamp did pretty much the same. Their "cross-overs" are most often closer to "borrowing characters and relationships" than "including universes", and with that I don't have a problem. :)
Kamui's father is an interesting riddle, one I haven't spent any thoughts on yet.
Seishiro's is of more interest to me - but then, I have a plot about that in the making, so I'm biased.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 14:16 (UTC)From:At his age Seishiro should use Watashi... but Subaru too uses Boku... which on him is kind of cute...
I've also got Kamui's 'ore' by drama cd & anime. This one I haven't checked on the manga but it fit Kamui so well I bet he uses it.
I've heard of the family stamp but I'm not sure about how it works... I still think there should be an adult to insure the kid can use it and that the one from whom the kid's buying stuffs isn't taking advantage of him...
As for rent, according to a manga I read (I know, not the most reliable source but I couldn't find any better), you should have someone else garant for you... even if, considering it's Nokoru we're speaking of, people might have overlook this.
But since I'm not sure about it let's pretend isn't needed (even though I bet CLAMP didn't even pose themselves the question. After all Kamui self inscribed to school and no adult signed for him. But well, I can't find a reliable source that says you need an adult to sign for you... only manga in which parents signed for the sons... It's hard to find info about how Japan work... when I researched for the school system I found different things even when I tried out Japanese sources...)
CLAMp's really a rather troublesome group of authors to write fics for. And how I wish they would end X... instead it seems that in 2009 they'll start another manga... Let's hope they'll end the current ones at least...
There are theories about Kamui's father being: Kyougo, Seishiro, Yuto and Shiro Fuyukaze (a character from Hagunsei Senki). Actually someone even voted for Nokoru... ^_^
Apparently, when asked about it, they implied there were something like hints in their work but I couldn't find them.
I hope they're not planning to have Subaru as his father or Clow Reed... or maybe Fei Wang! ^_-
Well, maybe it's just I'm partial about it but, to me, Seishiro's more interesting too...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 14:27 (UTC)From:I wouldn't rule out Kyogo - people are known to having done weirder things than sleeping with their wife's "best friend" for the sake of destiny - but he's not a likely (or interesting) candidate in my eyes.
On the other hand, Subaru and Kamui have a definite age relation in X and I can't picture Subaru fathering a kid at 9. However, we don't know zilch about the whereabouts of Subaru's parents and the Sumeragi are involved with the whole End of the World - Magami - Clamp Campus thingy, so maybe a generation earlier...
...which would explain the easy contact Subaru and Kamui had from the start in a weird, sentimental sort of things. Actually, that is an idea I would like to toy with sometime. It might turn out interesting. Maybe... :D
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 15:12 (UTC)From:You can see Fuyukaze here:
http://membres.lycos.fr/x1999/clampgakuen/hagun.htm
He's however too tall for being Kamui's dad (unless Kamui's growing up slowly) and he apparently has more a Fuma's personality.
Plus the kanji for his surname are read the same but written differently (even if in Meitantei Conan someone used the difference between written kanji and readed kanji to change identity... long story... so it might be Toru had purposely changed a kanji in hope to disguise them...)
While Kyougo would fit because Toru was supposed not only to give birth to Kamui but to the ShinKen also and, in order to do that, she would have to be at Togakushi (honestly I don't get why Saya needed to marry Kyougo while for Tokiko was enough to just pass by...) and Kyougo's tarot chard's meaning is 'The Father' (which might be referred to Fuma and Kotori anyway) it just seems a to easy solution.
LOL. It would match witht he fact Kamui's stole the role of Subaru's twin to Hokuto in Tsubasa... and explain why we never saw Subaru's dad (despite CLAMP apparently declaring in an interview (which I haven't) Subaru's parents are alive) and why they skipped a generation...
Subaru's dad got more important things to do than being clan head. He had to give birth to KAMUI! ^_-
... I think Hokuto might have gotten by her dad... if he could make up such excuse...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 16:40 (UTC)From:...and I think Subaru's father would have to _sire_ Kamui, not give birth to him. I know that Clamp doesn't take gender specifics too seriously, but so far they abstained from gender changes à la You Higuri. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 18:40 (UTC)From:If he had to make up an excuse that would allow him to skip his duty for so long he'll better make up one BIG... ^_-
But yes, you're right I typed it wrong... me and my poor English...-_-
no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 18:44 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 20:55 (UTC)From:Sei-chan met his mother at 9.
Subaru met Sei-chan at 9.
Sei-chan began working as Sakurazukamori at 15.
Subaru likely come in Tokyo to work as Onmyouji at 15...
Sei-chan got the Subaru's mentor role at 25...
Subaru got the Kamui's mentor role at 25...
I do wonder if Subaru's supposed to die at 34 too...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 04:18 (UTC)From:The meet at 9, work at fifteen, mentor at 25, die at 34 routine is... yuck. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 15:28 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 16:14 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 16:21 (UTC)From:Or maybe they have some meaning in Japan...
Anciently 15 was the Genpuku age...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 16:32 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 17:02 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 17:50 (UTC)From:There are various coming of age rites throughout Japanese history - as in most traditional societies. I just wasn't familiar with the term. Maybe use translations if possible?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 18:12 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 18:28 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-31 19:04 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 13:50 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-07-30 13:51 (UTC)From:ROTFL