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If you followed my writings once in a while, you probably noticed that I'm one of one those entirely nitpicking persons who like to have their facts straight before starting to play with them. In this context, the conundrum of the Sumeragi Twins - specifically Subaru and Hokuto - was the most prominent detail left in limbo for quite a long time.
About Subaru and Hokuto.
Please keep in mind that I'm no geneticist - and certainly no specialist in twins - when reading the following!
They look alike, yet are of different gender (gendermixed twins). Fanlore often considers them identical twins, which would account to monozygotic twins (from one egg) making them gendermixed monozygotic twins (scientific article on Pubmed), which is not entirely impossible, but comes with a baggage of problems. Most notably, it requires not one but two genetic defects to come to bear: the twin pair needs to have an additional X-chromosome (XXY) and the Y chromosome must be inactive in one of them, which would then develop as a healthy female, leaving the male (Subaru) with an additional X chromosome. Both conditions are extremely rare (and monozygotic twins to start with are also).
In addition, the additional X chromosome in the male is likely to cause a low (or non-existent) fertility and lengthened limbs (which makes me wonder about later CLAMP works - esp. the xxxHolic guys - but I digress). These conditions mustn't be severe, but are likely to exist in XXY males. There are other effects listed as well, but those weren't found as conclusive as these, as far as I could find out.
A high price just to make sure that the two of them truly look alike while having different gender.
While bizygotic (from two different eggs, thus not identical) twins mustn't look alike - in fact, they can look totally different - a high likeliness is not uncommon, considering that they typically stem from the same genetic source. (Bizygotic twins with different fathers are possible, but again require additional conditions to be met, making them less likely to happen.)
Studies on identical twins are an important tool to determine what is a genetic and what is an environmental effect on the human development. Quite a few of these studies conducted before genetic testing became available had to be withdrawn, because the subjects turned out not to be identical twins when they were tested genetically later.
As far as I know from the German and English translations of TB and X, CLAMP never explicitly stated Subaru and Hokuto to be identical twins (thus monozygotic). The translation stayed safely with "twins". Personally, I prefer the more likely - and for Subaru more healthy - solution of bizygotic gendermixed twins in this context.
I ignored the Sumeragi/Kamui twinship, because I don't follow Tsubasa at all and only heard of it via fantalks. (However, their status is obvious: bizygotic, non-gendermixed.)
And now I contemplate Subaru with mustache stubble...
...drool!
About Subaru and Hokuto.
Please keep in mind that I'm no geneticist - and certainly no specialist in twins - when reading the following!
They look alike, yet are of different gender (gendermixed twins). Fanlore often considers them identical twins, which would account to monozygotic twins (from one egg) making them gendermixed monozygotic twins (scientific article on Pubmed), which is not entirely impossible, but comes with a baggage of problems. Most notably, it requires not one but two genetic defects to come to bear: the twin pair needs to have an additional X-chromosome (XXY) and the Y chromosome must be inactive in one of them, which would then develop as a healthy female, leaving the male (Subaru) with an additional X chromosome. Both conditions are extremely rare (and monozygotic twins to start with are also).
In addition, the additional X chromosome in the male is likely to cause a low (or non-existent) fertility and lengthened limbs (which makes me wonder about later CLAMP works - esp. the xxxHolic guys - but I digress). These conditions mustn't be severe, but are likely to exist in XXY males. There are other effects listed as well, but those weren't found as conclusive as these, as far as I could find out.
A high price just to make sure that the two of them truly look alike while having different gender.
While bizygotic (from two different eggs, thus not identical) twins mustn't look alike - in fact, they can look totally different - a high likeliness is not uncommon, considering that they typically stem from the same genetic source. (Bizygotic twins with different fathers are possible, but again require additional conditions to be met, making them less likely to happen.)
Studies on identical twins are an important tool to determine what is a genetic and what is an environmental effect on the human development. Quite a few of these studies conducted before genetic testing became available had to be withdrawn, because the subjects turned out not to be identical twins when they were tested genetically later.
As far as I know from the German and English translations of TB and X, CLAMP never explicitly stated Subaru and Hokuto to be identical twins (thus monozygotic). The translation stayed safely with "twins". Personally, I prefer the more likely - and for Subaru more healthy - solution of bizygotic gendermixed twins in this context.
I ignored the Sumeragi/Kamui twinship, because I don't follow Tsubasa at all and only heard of it via fantalks. (However, their status is obvious: bizygotic, non-gendermixed.)
And now I contemplate Subaru with mustache stubble...
...drool!
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no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 07:40 (UTC)From:And my comment about heights was just a general rant, nothing aimed at you, I know you are a very thorough researcher. It's just that it's not uncommon to come across people who are disapointed by CLAMPs heights for the characters.
Eeek, I'm 12cm above our average but I've never experienced trouble with clothing as you do. And I thought I had it bad!
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 08:05 (UTC)From:Just like a lot of people yelp about the identical Sumeragi twins, completely ignoring that there's at least one pronounced physical canon difference: gender.
And JJ couldn't leave it be and started one of the number hunts in the community again. :::sigh:::
Regarding height & dress problems: I think it depends on the kind of clothing and how aware the manufacturers are about the differences. Over here, when it's made for my height, the wearer is expected to need also width as a woman. In short: you can't be tall, if you aren't fat. Rubbish!
I wouldn't call it problems, though. I've come to like the men's wear. The cloth is of better quality, the seams are straight, and the fitting is typically anti-smell, anti-sweat, and nicely cool (esp. in summer), and if you get good quality, you don't even have to iron the stuff. That's a comfort, I never spotted in clothes made for women. Apparently, we always have to have time to iron, and walk, and we're always too cold to sweat... (Rubbish to the power of ten!)
Even if there are now dresses for my size, I'm not likely to go back. I may not follow fashion, but I look good *and* have comfortable clothes at the same time! ;)
http://jjblue1.livejournal.com/
Date: 2010-04-11 13:28 (UTC)From: (Anonymous)Re: http://jjblue1.livejournal.com/
Date: 2010-04-11 13:55 (UTC)From:I was the same in my first fandom, but it doesn't help to get a vivid plot image. The relative dimensions between the charas are more helpful for that. So I stopped fretting that much and found writing easier.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 14:13 (UTC)From:Oh well, I admit some data I find are completely of no use for me and I merely store them in case on a remote day I could need them for future applications... (you'll never know what could come of use...)
Most of the others instead are for my little puzzle game.
I think if they were given they should be of some use for the plot development and so I try to guess which one could be. Though I've to admit manga and anime sometimes like to throw datas at random (like when Rayearth girls introduced themselves giving their bloodtype also... the oddest chara introduction ever... even if CLAMP used it for comic relief).
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 14:20 (UTC)From:Of course, it's also the reason why I don't feel in the least guilty about adding 10+ years to the CCD trio to make them Seishiro's schoolmates instead of Kamui's. ;)
The bloodtype was a horoscope thingy big in Japan in the time when TB and then X were published. Character treads were justified that way (even authors listed their bloodtype along with the summary). It's a kind of public game / common superstition.
Love matches, dietary, the right shoe color - everything can be determined by bloodtype (if you believe in the silly stuff, that is).
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 15:44 (UTC)From:LOL, I know.
Yes, I've heard about it but still it felt weird...
Since my bloodtype doesn't match at all with what's said in this (http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art22988.asp) I don't think I'm going to believe in this sort of things much... -_-
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 15:48 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 16:53 (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 14:32 (UTC)From:YES. My main difficulty with buying trousers has something to do with that. A woman can't have wide hips and not be fat, apparently, because my trousers will fit fine around the hips, be loose as hell around the waist and thighs. *sigh* And even with these setbacks men's shorts/trousers are still more comfortable.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 14:39 (UTC)From:I was wondering what CLAMP made of them, so I asked JJ above, but I frankly accepted my weirdness in their case. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 14:45 (UTC)From: