Game of Thrones - no spoilers

[akk]

A couple of posts about the tv series Game of Thrones have sprung up across my friends lists in the last couple of days, probably caused by the dvd release of season 1 in Germany and the airing of season 2 (?).
I've followed the posts closely and - so far - I've come to the conclusion that Game of Thrones is one of those fandoms, which I will avoid because I love the books and the tv show, and find its grisly depictions entirely befitting the source. (I only mourn that the direwolves didn't get as much attention as I'd wished for them).

Everybody reads and envisions the events in books differently and GRRM wraps his tale in very pretty prose, but the tale itself is ugly (up to English book 5 - as far as I read) and doesn't pull punches. I assume that for most people it's one thing to read pretty words about ugly things and another to see ugly pictures telling the same thing, because the picture they form in their head when reading is influenced by the pretty words. They are convinced they handled the ugly truth and when shown are uncomfortable (or even put off). In contrast, most of the time I'm put off by shows that pull too many punches to present their source. Maybe it's because I'm "an eye person" and while I prefer pretty words over ugly ones, the prettiness of the words itself doesn't affect the image my mind makes of them. Or maybe my pictures have always been ugly, I don't know. I prefer Alien over E.T., Robin of Sherwood over Errol Flynn any time.

Anyway, people - and people reading - are different and from experience, this specific difference is one that often sours the experience of shows and books (and fan connections), because we all feel we have to prove our points and how tough we are. I don't think that helps with this, however, and I have too much fun with Game of Thrones (books and show) and people in various other fandoms. I don't have - or want - to risk any of it.

Have fun, folks! :-)

Edit: Not all comments I got here are without spoilers, though. :/

Comments

[jo_lasalle]

Huh? Is this a coincidence or are you talking to me in some way I'm not quite following? *g*

I find your reaction interesting, but I hadn't got the impression that the online fandom has a problem with grisliness -- or does it? I read a few posts here and there but am not following communities.

[akk]

Did you post about...?
Sorry, I didn't see your post before. :-)

No, I wasn't talking to you in specific. After reading it, I see how you may think so, but I truly didn't mean it that way. I was working on this post for a few hours, trying to get it into a shape not offending or antagonizing people or coming across as arrogant/self-centered, because I truly want the opposite.

There are various posts from my friends about it and the overall consensus there is to embrace characters I find annoying and complain about (and argue over) things I consider coming straight from the books and I don't believe it's something to argue about, because reading experience is so very different from one reader to the next. Right now, mine seems to deviate too far from the mainstream to comfortably participate in the "initial conflagration", so I just wanted to tell everybody at once that I stay out of it (and why, because that would be the next question leading straight into the hot water again).
But I'm afraid, I'm not really good at that kind of diplomatic thing. :(

Please rest assured that if I had something to say to one of your posts in specific, I would comment there - even if only with a "hello, I wrote an answer (at that link)". Everything less would be unfair, wouldn't it? :-)

[jo_lasalle]

LOL yes, I was just wondering. It seems to be a posting-about-GoT morning on my flist too! *g*

I'd be curious whom it is you like and find annoying, but I guess that falls under 'not wanting to get into discussions'? In any case, I'd be interested in your perspective, but I understand wanting to stay out of it if it's contentious and loaded in your circles!

[akk]

I don't mind talking in general, but the discussions tend to become quite personal and argumentative and that's what I try to avoid.
My likes and dislikes are a mix from season 1 and the books.

Likes: Tyrion, Jon, Arya, Ned, the Master of Dance, (the old Lannister, the Hound)
Dislikes: Sansa (with a vengeance), the court Lannisters (Cercei, Jaime, their brat)
Shrugs: Catelyn, Daenerys,
Complaints: too little of the direwolves & their personalities in the show.

[jo_lasalle]

Ah, interesting! Thanks for answering. Yeah, I guess it's typical for fandom to get argumentative, because when we care, we care. But I understand not wanting to go there for some beloved canons. :-)

Beyond the first two eps, there's really not much interesting going on with the direwolves in the series at all, though I have heard they are more interesting in the book before.

[akk]

Sadly, caring oftentimes means quarreling - about stuff too much related to taste to be ever resolved.

The direwolves definitely are more present in the books, with their own specialties and personalities that reflect aspects of their owners, strength and weaknesses alike.

Btw. I found the experience of reading the books actually improved after having seen season 1. I enjoy rereading book 1 even more than the initial read. Maybe it's worth to give it a try. :)

[rheasilvia]

This is interesting. I don't have any contact with GoT fandom at all - and haven't read any reaction posts either, because so far I've been trying to stay unspoiled even for S1. I take it people object to the violence in the series, and/or the deaths, and/or other things...?

[akk]

I'm not in contact with the fandom per se, but it seems that a number of the people on my friends lists might well end up getting into (or forming a new version) of it.

Regarding the objections, it's not so clear-cut, some like some but not the other. In general, I got the impression people expected more Errol Flynnesque sword & sorcery and less the realistic (mud & rapist) sword & sorcery they got.

It reminds me of the guy who insisted to only get the spicey dishes, but a single Thai chili in a 5 l pot of soup ruined his throat. People don't know how much they are "Disney" until they know the other side of the curtain, but they aren't aware of that.

I've come across this phenomenon before when Lord of the Rings became popular (and people noticed that Tolkien's prose is not as fast-paced as the movies (and not as easy reading as Harry Potter)).

That's when I learned to keep out of this sort of things. I liked LotR books, I liked the movies (they never told the same thing for me, though), and I am bored to death by HP. But it's no use to argue about being different. Difference just is. And in the beginning, we all have our problems accepting that (esp. when our egos demand us to prove how tough we are!). :-)

[effie_chan]

That's too bad that you don't feel comfortable discussing your opinions in this fandom context. I love argueing about stuff like that and reading different opinions about characters and plot and the like. As for the characters you like and dislike, they seem pretty mainstream. I hardly know anyone who doesn't hate Sansa. I do, too, although sometimes I like to play devil's advocate just for the heck of it in her case.

[akk]

I guess it depends on the kind of discussions you find yourself in.
I've had my share of the ugly ones and found that the arguments appeared in my mind whenever I went back to the respective book or show. It took the fun out of things.
And so far, Game of Thrones proved to be a universe, I'm comfortable in on my own. :)

You'd be surprised how fast things deteriorate when it comes to the reasons behind the likes/dislikes. Note that King Rob(ert Baratheon/b Stark) both failed to make any list so far.

Regarding Sansa, I've actually met quite a few people who prefer her (and in bookverse, Lady (her graceful wolf pub, Cersei had killed). Personally, she always reminded me of the cliché highschool beauty: pretty face, empty brain, unaware of her cruelty because she's always nice as her mommy taught her (except to people who don't fit into her worldview, that is).
Admittedly, she gets more depth a lot later, but that's quite a bit of plot away & regarding the how and why... I don't want to spoil you. :)

[effie_chan]

Oh I've read the books so no chance of getting spoiled. The thing about Sansa is that she is very privileged and also very unaware of that privilege which makes her a very unlikeable character. As that privilege gets taken away she becomes more compassionate (though not too much) and relateable. I still don't like her very much because she is such an airhead but she has enough complexity in herself that I can see how people can argue about her either way.

The people who I have heard that argue in her favour are mostly Sansa/the Hound shippers, though.

Cersei Lannister is actually one of those characters I can occasionally like, especially in the TV series but overall I still hate her. It's just, she does have redeeming qualities. (Unlike, say, Jeoffrey.)

I get what you say about how a bad argument can ruin the books/TV-series, though.

[akk]

:)

Also, it's a real person tv show, thus unlikely for me to start writing about it. The only RPtv ever triggering writing was Robin of Sherwood, and I didn't write RoS, but original fiction then. So there's also not much to gain from immersing myself in the quarrel-zone. ;)

Cercei, sleeping with her brother, considering herself smart and politically savvy, but being totally blind to the "qualities" of her illbegotten offspring and her talents to actually not piss off everybody non-Lannister.

[primera]

I read up to feast for crows back in 2006. Pretty much spent an entire summer shut up in my room with those books. I remember looking for a fandom and finding a small, sparsely active lj comm. it's amazing to me to see how the fandom has exploded, but I also don't have a desire to get involved with it, since the new fandom seems to center primarily around the show... I dunno, I watched a couple episodes and it's not that I thought it was bad or anything. I guess its just a story that I prefer in book form.

[primera]

Ugh, and one thing I hate about fandoms that spring up for shows/movies that were books first is all the fan girls for such and such character just because their actor is hot.

And I know it's probably terribly "hipster" of me or something but I don't think I will ever come to terms with my rage for the slew of LOTR "fans" who never read the books or even insulted the books after attempting to read them. I read LOTR in goddam middle school with all my friends looking at me like I was crazy... *sigh*

[effie_chan]

LOL it's such a hipster thing but I kind of agree. Though the hardcore hipster nerds (oxymoron? I'm not sure...) have also read and enjoyed the Silmarillion. ;P

In the case of Game of Thrones I almost prefer the HBO series, not so much because of the actors (although they do do a nice job of bringing the characters to life) but rather because I really like what the writers have done to the screenplay adaptation in terms of tightening up characterisation and plot points. The first book was really the best in that regard but now in the second season I'm glad they're starting to deviate from the source material a little bit.

[effie_chan]

"You really love your children. It's your one redeeming quality. That, and your cheekbones." --Tyrion

(He really does have all the best lines.)

[primera]

LOL I read the silmarillion as well. But I'm not a hipster!! I'm just an ordinary fantasy nerd who spent her teen years lurking in libraries.

I should prob give it another try, because I really enjoyed the hbo series Rome... I'm just not in a tv mood these days... and lord knows my moods dictate my life :P

[akk]

No spoilers, please.

[akk]

Actually, I found that watching season 1 improved on the fun factor when rereading the first book afterwards, which is one of the reasons I'd absolutely hate to have it soured by the usual squabbles about who ships whom and therelike.

I can't say anything for season 2, as it's only on pay-tv in Germany, which is ridiculously expensive (and Hulu etc. is US-only). I'm waiting for the dvd release there. One of my reasons for the "no spoilers" in the title.

[akk]

LOTR movie and LOTR books never melded for me. I loved the movies. I loved the books. They never told the same story in my mind. :)
So I didn't mind the fandom as long as they stayed out of my yard. They did & we get along well. (Of course, it helps, if you answer comments like "you MUST see/read/watch that fanart/fanfic/movie" with a picture note in Tengwar. ;) )

[akk]

Actually, in the German version I preferred the Silmarillion over LOTR and the Hobbit.

I can't (and want) to say anything specific about the HBO series. German public tv had season one as a weekend special a few weeks ago (that's when I watched it and decided to get the dvds as well). Season 2 is scheduled on pay-tv and that's ridiculously expensive here. So I'm waiting for the dvd release there.

I'd be happy if you would abstain from outlining or refering to the differences between book and show for that reason. :)

[akk]

I always think "hip bone, hip prothesis of a spinster" when reading the word "hipster". Sorry, it just sounds silly.

Regarding Rome. I think the series would have been much, much better if HBO had not forced them to cramp the remaining half of the planned plot in just two closing episodes because of the budgetary. The rush through events at the end definitely killed things.

[effie_chan]

All right, I'll keep quiet. All I'll say is that it's very well made. :)

[akk]

:) For season 1, I def. agree to that.